It’s about time I bake something with more rye, don’t you think? Most of the bread you find among the recipes on this blog contains mainly wheat flour.
For some strange reason, wheat flour seems to have a higher “status” than rye when it comes to baking. Besides, it is good for your health if you replace some wheat with rye
Despite that, bread baked with wheat flour seems to have a leading position on blogs (mine included), sourdough forums, and Facebook groups.
It’s weird because one of the most important reasons for baking with sourdough starter is that you get bread that tastes more.
I think you’ll agree with me when I say that sourdough rye bread tastes more than wheat. Still, most people seem to favor wheat bread.
Why is that?
One reason can be that it’s hard to bake bread with airy crumb if you bake with rye flour. Wheat flour is superior when it comes to that thanks to its high gluten content.
You also have to be more careful when kneading a dough with rye flour than with wheat flour. You can overwork it. Something that is quite hard with wheat dough.
Sometimes you don’t want bread that tastes too much, for example, if it is to be served to food.
Or perhaps some people just don’t like rye bread. What do I know?
I know one thing.
I like rye bread, and I think there are many of you who do the same.
So let’s start baking some great bread with a lot of rye.
When I say a lot, I don’t mean all rye. We will add some wheat flour, but only 40%. That gives you bread that is not so dense like bread baked only on rye tends to be.
If you don’t use your dough mixer, there’s no risk that you will overwork the dough. A few stretch and folds will be enough.
PREPARING THE DOUGH
As I mentioned earlier, I used both rye and wheat flour for this recipe.
The Protein content is 12.5% for the wheat flour and 8.5 for the rye.
The hydration is 75%. You may have to adjust that figure if you’re using stronger flour.
I’ve used my wheat starter (coaxed with some rye), but feel free to use a rye starter if that’s what you have available.
All ingredients were mixed, except the salt. After that I let the dough rest for an hour. I say rest and not autolyze. According to the hardcore sourdough aficionados, the starter is added after the autolyze. And I don’t want to mess with those guys.
After the rest, I added salt and performed the first stretch and fold.
I have described that process earlier in this recipe. Here you can also find an excellent video showing how to do.
BULK FERMENTATION
Try to find a warm place for the bulk fermentation, preferably 78ºF/25ºC. That can be tricky if you are living in the northern hemisphere at this time of year. I use to place the dough in the oven with the lamp lit. That works fine, but you have to be a bit careful. It can be too hot, so I use to open the lid now and then and check the temperature with a thermometer. I let the dough ferment for 4 hours.
FINAL RISE
The time required for the final rise depends on many factors. The surrounding temperature and the strength of the starter are just two of many. You can let it ferment at room temperature or in the refrigerator depending on taste and how much time you have. Fermentation in cold temperature takes longer of course, but it also gives more taste to the bread. The end result can be quite sour though, so if you don’t like that, you should consider letting the dough ferment at room temperature.
It’s almost impossible to give advice about the time required for the final rise. Therefore I have stopped doing that. Instead, I encourage my readers to observe and touch the dough. The finger poke test gives you a hint when it’s time to bake. I have described the test in an earlier recipe, and you can read about it here.
TIME TO BAKE
Preheat the oven to 480ºF / 250ºC. I have used a baking stone for the bread on the pictures, but you can also use a dutch oven with good result. If you don’t have any of those items, It’s OK to use an oven sheet.
Always score the loaf before baking. Otherwise, you may end up with some interesting but undesired forms on your bread.
Always use steam in your oven when baking bread. It doesn’t have to be anything advanced. An extra preheated oven sheet that you can pour some water on before you close the oven lid is OK. Steam prevents the surface from drying out and gives the crust a more pleasant color.
This bread needs about 35 minutes in the oven. You may have to lower the heat during the last 10-15 minutes.
This is not a fancy or spectacular bread. It’s just an ordinary, hearty sourdough rye bread. The kind of bread I want for breakfast. Like my best sourdough bread, It’s quite easy to bake. I just have to bake this more often.
Easy sourdough rye bread recipe
Ingredients
- 300 gram sourdough starter 100% hydration
- 600 gram water
- 350 gram Wheat flour 11.5% protein content.
- 500 gram whole rye flour 8.5% protein content.
- 20 gram sea salt
Instructions
- Mix all ingredients except the salt. Make sure that all flour is hydrated. Let the dough rest for an hour.
- Add salt and perform one stretch and fold. Perform 3 sets of stretch and folds in total during bulk fermentation, spaced out by 30 minutes.
- Let the dough rest for 4 hours at a temperature of 78ºF/25ºC.
- Lightly flour your work surface and dump out the dough. Divide it into two pieces with your bench knife. Flatten the dough gently with your hands. Form each piece of dough to a bâtard There's a link to an excellent video showing how to form a bâtard in the recipe notes
- Let the loaves rise until they pass the the finger poke test. The time required depends a lot on ambient temperature so don't look at the clock.
- Preheat your oven to 480ºF / 250ºC with two oven plates. One to bake the bread on and one just below. If you have a baking stone or dutch oven, use them.
- Score the loaves in your preferred pattern and place them in the oven. Pour some water on the plate below and bake each loaf in 35-45 minutes.
- Let the breads cool on wire racks.
143 Comments
Hi there!
Such a great web site — I’ve been wanting to try a rye loaf for awhile and a higher hydration loaf. This was my first attempt and I think I may have missed a critical step somewhere… I mixed all my ingredients (including a ripe starter) and let it sit for 1 hour. I then added the salt and started the folds and did a full fold 2 more x every half hour. I stopped after the third turn, and let the dough ferment until the end of the four hours. Then, I turned it out to shape the loaves and it was very very wet still and I couldn’t form a loaf, (let alone get it to come off my hands). What did I miss in the process? Thank you!
Hi, Maiken,
It’s not easy to give a straight answer. It can depend on so many things. How strong is the flour you are using? Do you use any flour on the working surface? I’m asking because I know that some prefer not to add any flour. But that requires special techniques when forming the loaf. You can also try to wet your hands before forming the loaf to prevent the dough from sticking to your hands. But the dough shouldn’t be that sticky. It sounds like you have got to much water in it. How about your starter. The starter used for this recipe has a hydration of 100% which I realize that I have forgotten to mention. I’m very sorry about that. I will correct it immediately. Does your starter have a higher hydration? That could explain the problem.
Hi Tomas,
Thanks for the quick response! I had a 100% hydration starter with an AP unbleached white and white whole wheat flour mix. I used AP unbleached white flour in the recipe and a local rye (farmer ground flour).
In order to keep the dough a little warmer than my cold apartment, I proofed it in the microwave with some hot water in the microwave with it. I kept the dough covered with plastic wrap but perhaps that increased the hydration of the dough.
And again, maybe I am just unused to high hydration doughs… I just couldn’t get any surface tension in the shaping process.
I found a great video from San Francisco Baking Institute showing how to form a loaf with high hydration dough. Perhaps it can be to some help.
This recipe worked beautifully for me. I used a mix of rye (300g), spelt (300g), and wheat (250g) with my rye starter. I let it rise for hours! When shaping the batards, I had to use quite a lot of flour on the bench to stop them sticking, and it all held together fine. The loaves took only 25 mins each, and the result was fantastic. Thank you so much,
Great to hear this, Megan.
Ionly have one bread form and let the otherlong loaf rise on a cookie sheet and it made it really flat. What should I do to get the right form before baking it?
hi, can I leave it to prove overnight? Thanks
If we are talking about the final rise, yeas it works fine.
I often find that sourdough recipes produce a really wet dough that is difficult to handle. I remember an early attempt at a white sourdough that accidentally turned into ciabatta for this reason. Every flour behaves differently, so you need to get used to your ingredients and adjust accordingly, either less water or more flour. It does no harm to add flour gradually during the stretch and fold until the texture feels right – elastic enough to stretch naturally under its own weight, but firm enough to hold a ball shape when left in the bowl. Keep practising!
I wish to thank Tomas for this wonderful super easy recipe. It’s my first attempt at sourdough rye and I am extremely happy with the results. Not sure why there are comments that the dough is too wet, for me it was just the right amount of water to flour. I followed the recipe exactly, except that my starter was just 275g, every step went smoothly as it was supposed to be. I will definitely be using this as my go to recipe!
Many thanks, Elena. I’m so happy that you were successful with this recipe. I’m still trying to figure out why so many seem to have such problems with this recipe.
Hello! Really excited to try this recipe and graduate from wheat/white sourdough to rye. Could I cut this recipe in half with the same results? Thanks for the post!
Hi Christine!
Yes, you can cut it in half. I have done it myself. Works fine.
Hi, with the final rise, if it can be done overnight, would you put it in the fridge or is it to be left out?
Hi Priscilla.
If you plan to let it proof overnight I suggest you put it in the fridge.
Hi Tomas,
If i proof the dough overnight in the fridge, can I put it in the oven straight from the fridge? Do I still have to do the finger poker test?
About the bulk fermentation, What’s the cue to know when to stop it? I live in a very hot and humid weather so I guess 4hours fermentation is going to be too much?
Yes, you can put it straight into the oven. Personally, I use to make the finger poke teat, just in case. but most of the time it’s ready.
I wish I could give you a straight answer to your second question, but I can’t. And I don’t think anybody else can either. It depends on so many different things like the status of your starter, the ambient temperature, etc.
I’m planning to write a blog post about this subject, but until I’m ready, perhaps you can find some valuable information at Truesourdough.com.
Hi Thomas,
Like Maiken above said, it’s the same with me for some reason. The dough turned too wet, so I’ve added some more flour and will let you know how that goes.
Used the oven with turned on light to have warmer place to rise. And it did rised the first time, but it was too wet. I’ve used starter with 100% hydration starter…
Please let me know about your results. This dough has a hydration of 75%. It’s quite high but not that high I think. Besides, rye flour absorbs quite a lot of water, at least the brand I use. But perhaps that is the problem. My flour absorbs more water.
I have baked this bread a couple of times but I baked it again today just to be sure. I had the same result as usual. I don’t have any problem with the dough being too wet. I still think the flour is the issue here. I will make a new test with a different rye flour as soon as I can. I will be bck with the result.
Thank you so much for sharing the recipe. I tried your recipe (halving it, but had 340g of water instead of 300 for higher hydration) and it turned out so well. I didn’t have time to do 3 stretch & folds, only managed to do one. I also placed it in the fridge overnight for the final proofing, since I didn’t have time to bake it the same day. I was worried when it didn’t rise very much during baking (maybe too much water) and was concerned that the loaf would turn out dense and hard. It was more dense than other sourdough loaves, but it was delicious. It was tangy and has a strong molasses scent. My husband loved it.
I’m glad you liked it. Ther reason it didn’t rise as much can depend on many things. The hydration of your bread is quite high. Rye has quite poor baking qualities compared to wheat (It develops less gluten), so the high hydration may be the problem. But it can also depend on the strength of your starter, the surrounding temperature, etc. Try t bake with less water next time and see if there are any difference.
Great recipe… I’ve noticed that sometimes when I add the salt separately, it does not get integrated completely into the dough… What I did last time was to leave out 100 gms water during the mixing. dissolved the salt in the water, and added it back in after the one hour rest, before the first stretch and fold… worked great!!!
I have experienced the same sometimes. The method you use works fine, I have also tried it. You can also add a very small amount of water on the dough together with the salt, and then rub the salt against the dough so it dissolves into the water.
Yay! That’s exactly what I’ve done today. First time rye bread today so keep your fingers crossed.
I hope it will turn out well. Let us know about your result.
Can this bread be proofed overnight in the fridge?
Yes, it can. 8 to 10 hours in the fridge should not be a problem. After that, it’s a good idea to check the dough now and then so it’s not over-proofed.
Hi Tomas, the bread looks great! I would like to bake it this weekend. What type of sourdough starter did you use (white / rye) ?
Thanks!
Hi there.
For this recipe, I used my wheat starter, but a rye starter works a well. Bear in mind though that you increase the amount of rye, wich may result in a slightly more dense bread. But I honestly think that the taste will be better.
Hi there, do you have a sourdough starter recipe?
Unfortunately, I have no written recipe. At least not yet. But I will soon be ready with an ebook about how to make a sourdough starter. I’m planning to give it as a welcome gift to new subscribers to my newsletter.
Count me in then on being a new subscriber when that happens! Can you suggest then where I can find a good recipe. I’m fairly new to sourdough baking. Also why do so many recipes when establishing a new starter require to discard half of it at each feeding? Thank you in advance.
Check out The perfect loaf. There you can find a method similar to mine. Besides, you will find some incredible recipes there. The reason why you have to discard a part of the starter is that it would be VERY big otherwise. You will have to feed it once a day for perhaps two weeks. In the end, you may have to feed it twice.
Thank you! Let me know when you have the ebook giveaway for new subscribers!
I will. Promise.
the recipe calls for 300 grams water. I think this is an error. Maybe thats why some people have dough thats too wet. It should probably be 300 ml water.
But 300 ml water is exactly the same as 300 gram. When you say 300 ml you mean milliliter?
So much for my knowledge of the metric system! I am having trouble getting consistent results with my bread. It is usually too wet, or I get no rise, or a floppy rise! Very frustrating. Once it turned out perfectly. I really want to master this, but Im not sure what to do.
I understand you’re frustration. We have all been there, me too. The hydration of this dough is 75%. It’s not that high. High hydration doughs start around 80%. However, many recipes have a hydration of 65%, so it’s not that strange if this dough feels a bit wet. But if you think this dough is hard to handle, add some more flour. I know that saying this is almost like shouting obscenities in a church in many sourdough communities, but I still think it’s a good solution when you have problems like this.
If you add 100 gram more wheat flour you have a hydration of 68%, and probably a much easier dough to handle. Give it a try and check the result. Perhaps it turns out just great. If not, you can reduce the amount of flour in small steps until you are happy with the result. Handling wet doughs need some practice, but you can do it, just don’t give up.
However, it sounds like you are having some issues with your starter. Even if the dough is very wet, it should not affect the rise if your starter is strong. I need some more information here.
When you feed your starter before baking, how much does it expand in volume?
Thanks for your reply and encouragement. Im trying the recipe again today. My starter doubles before I use it.
Ok So this time my bread didn’t rise again. My starter seemed fine. I put it in the fridge overnight after mixing the dough. I took it out at 7:00am and let it warm up until 11:00 and it was starting to rise a bit. I formed the loaf. I let it rise until 2:00 pm with poor rising results. I don’t know if I will bake it or not. I love this bread, so I’ll keep trying. Any more thoughts?
I’m glad to hear that you have not given up, Beth. I have one question, though. You say that you put it in the fridge after mixing the dough. Does that mean that the bulk fermentation occurs in the fridge? If so, why do you put the dough into the fridge and how much do you let the dough expand in volume before shaping the loaf? One of the reasons for the bulk fermentation is to give strength to the fermentation process, and perhaps 4 hours from a cold environment like a fridge is not enough.
Giving this a try tomorrow for a party on Saturday, along with my normal sourdough and white boules. St Pattys day party so their is an interest in rye alongside the corned beef. 😉
Sourdough rye bread and corned beef. Sounds like a perfect combo. Please let me know about your result, Jorge.
Hi –
Just about to pop a loaf into the oven. If I use a dutch oven do I have to also add additional. Steam?
Hi Susan.
With a dutch oven, you don’t need to add any additional steam.
Hi Tomas
Is the bulk rise 4 hours in total, or 1 1/2 hours for the time to complete the stretch and folds plus 4 hours – meaning 5 1/2 hours total.?
Hi Beth
For my dough, it was enough with 4 hours in total. However, I don’t think you should pay too much attention to what I’m writing in my recipes. The time I enter is only for guidance. Your dough may need more or less time, depending on the strength of starter, ambient temperature, etc. Normally, I let the dough double in size during bulk fermentation.
For the second rise, should the loaves be doubled in volume before baking? Also, can you give me a ballpark figure on how long the second rise can take? I’ve made so many mistakes that right now I’m just looking for information to compare with what I’ve already done.
Most of the times it takes 1-1,5 hours in room temperature. In a refrigerator, I would say at least 12 hours. I don’t look at the volume when it comes to the second rise anymore. Instead, I use the finger poke test as it’s quite hard to determine if a shaped loaf, placed in a banneton has doubled in size.
Hi Tomas
My bread is getting better and better. What seems to work best is to allow the dough to refridgerate for 48 hours, then take it out and let it rise for three hours, then bake. I also reduce the oven temp because the bottom of the bread was burning. Thanks for responding to my emails. Its been really helpful. I was so thankful when I found your recipe. You cannot buy this bread anywhere. I learned to love it when I was living in Germany years back. Im not sure why refridgeration seems to help my dough, but I am getting a better rise than I do when I give it 4 hours at room temp. Maybe my starters need extra time to work.
Hi there Beth
I’m so glad it starts getting better with your baking. This is a good reminder that baking with a sourdough starter is quite complex and no recipe can be followed 100%. What works for you may not work that good for me. 48 hours with that much rye would result in an over-proofed loaf in my refrigerator. But I suspect that my fridge is slightly warmer than yours. And perhaps, just as you say, our starters works a bit differently.
I have been making bread (including sourdough) for many years. I agree this dough was unworkable. I have made many higher hydration recipes and was able to work and form the dough. I kept assuming that eventually the dough would come around and it did not. They are rising for the final time and the oven is heating. I will post the results later.
Hi everybody.
There are mixed opinions about this recipe. Some say it works fine, while others experience difficulties with the hydration.
The hydration of the dough is 75%. Quite wet, but the hydration is not extremely high.
But figures is one thing, and reality is something different. I have baked this bread a couple of times, but not lately. Therefore, I will bake it, following the recipe, and see if I experience the same problems some of you have had.
I will publish the results both here and on my facebook page.
I made a test bake as I promised and it turned out just great. Perhaps a little too flat and dense, but that was more a result of bad planning. I had no problem whatsoever to work with this dough. Some of you have experienced the dough as very wet and sticky, even not workable.
I just don’t experience these problems. And that makes it hard to figure out why some of you have these problems.
However, I may have found one explanation. In different parts of the world there exist different rye qualities, and all f them are not whole grain. Here in Sweden we only have two qualities. Fine or coarse rye flour. Both of them are whole rye. I’m not sure you can buy anything else then whole rye here in Sweden if you are not a professional baker.
Whole grain flour absorbs more water, so it can be an explanation. It’s the only one I can come up with. I have changed the recipe from rye flour to whole rye flour. I hope this solves some issues for some of you.
You can see the pictures from my test bake on my Facebook page.
In your text above the recipe, you state that the hydration is 75%, and yet in the recipe ingredients it says that the starter is 100% hydration. I’ve used 100% hydration starter as stated in the recipe, and the dough is sticky and unmanageable to the extent that no folding is possible. The dough breaks apart and sticks to my hands like glue. I will persevere, but not convinced this will end well.
Hi Eileen,
The hydration for the starter is 100%, but when you mix it with the rest of the flour and water, the overall hydration of the final dough will be 75%.
Some people seems to have problems with this recipe, and I have tried to figure out why. I have baked this bread several times and never had these problems.
Now, rye behaves differently than wheat flour. You will never have the same smooth, elastic dough with this much rye, compared to wheat only. It’s because rye has far less gluten than wheat.
That can be one explanation of why it feels like it breaks apart when folding. If the dough is overly sticky, add some more flour until it feels manageable. I know that there are many out there that will protest against that, but I think it’s better to do that than to struggle with a dough that feels hopeless. When you have baked this bread a couple of times and get used to it, you can always try to add more water again.
Thank-you for this recipe! I usually make a 50% spelt 50% AP sourdough but I wanted to try working with rye flour. First off, the bread tastes absolutely delicious! However, it was super wet and sticky so the loaves were a bit flat. I was also too afraid to put the dough into bannetons so I just proofed them in oiled bowls. That was fine except they turned into pancakes on the pan. I just quickly scooped them up into boules again and threw them into the oven where the heat was intense enough to prevent a re-pancaking…anyway, not sure how to get surface tension with a rye bread so I may just proof them in loaf pans next time. The taste is just so good though that it is worth the new learning curve.
I’m glad you like it, Mary-Kate.
You can always add more flour if the dough feels overly wet and sticky. It’s not a crime even if some ot there in the baking community will claim that. It’s better to do that than to struggle with dough that feels impossible to work with. Bake the bread a couple of times, get used to it, and then you can start adding water again.
Rye behaves differently than wheat because of the low gluten content, and it takes some time to get comfortable with it.
Hi Tomas, I’ve made this loaf 3 times now. The dough is impossible to shape so I’ve had to dump it into a banneton and it hardly came out of the banneton the next morning, but still great oven rise! Today I was hopeful, but again, way too sticky, no shaping possible. I just put them into baking pans and they are now in the fridge. But…reason I’m leaving a note is that the bread tastes amazing and it keept very well, even after a few days, still soft crumb. I love it. My husband and kids all like it and they are not keen sourdough lovers so that tells me something! Thanks for the recipe and I’ll just keep trying or rather, I think I’ll forget about the shaping and I know they still come out well.
Hi Berrith,
It’s so frustrating to hear that some of you have such problems with this recipe. I wish I had an explanation, but I don’t. I have baked this bread so many times, without any issues at all. I guess it has to do with the flour.
But I don’t know.
I’m so glad that you were happy with the result, despite the sticky dough.
Next time, perhaps you can add some more flour?
If so, please let me know about your results. I’m trying to find out what the problem is.
Hi Thomas, thank your for your reply. I suppose it may have to do with me using a whole rye flour starter (100% hydration). Is a total of 650 grams of whole rye flour against 500 grams wheat flour too much to handle a dough? I’m pretty new to bread baking and have bought flour at two different mills so far, so I guess it’s hard to draw any conclusions. Will keep you posted on progress. Maybe the next step is a wheat flour sourdough starter, see how that works, or otherwise change the ratio in wheat flour/rye flour in this recipe? Thanks.
Hi Berrith,
Rye flour has less gluten than wheat and behaves differently. If you bake with 100% rye it’s impossible to anything with the dough unless dumping it into a bread pan. It will be very dense but loaded with flavor. I think that is one explanation why so many have problems with this recipe. It’s a different experience to bake with rye compared to wheat. Try to exchange some rye with wheat next time and see what happens. Remember, a recipe is just a guideline. At the end of the day, it’s your bread. You decide how you want it to be.
Hi Thomas, sorry, I see that you have already commented on whole flour rye. I actually started baking sourdough whilst working on a Swedish farm this summer! I loooove the enormous choice of flours at the Swedish supermarkets. Am now baking the bread using 50% rye flour and 50% wheat flour. See what happens.
Sounds good. May I ask where in Sweden you were working? I’m just curious.
We worked on a farm near Jarpen (I’m sorry, but don’t have the Swedish accents on my keyboard) for a month and a farm near Uddevalla. Wondeful, I wish I was there now in snow and Christmas spirit.
The bread with 50% rye and 50 % wheat flour worked out well! I used 300 grams of rye starter, and then changed ratio of flours to 50-50. Fermentation was a lot quicker and even over rise on the 2nd rise. I used a bit of flour this time during shaping and that helped. However, creating tension is pretty impossible with a rye loaf, am I right?
Yes, you can more or less forget about tension with that much rye. Not enough gluten. Just shape it the way you want it. I’m glad it worked out well.
Hi there. I’m looking forward to trying this recipe. I currently only have a starter with AP flour. Am I better off transtioning it to a rye starter or a wheat starter in order for it to work best in this recipe? Also, is stoneground whole wheat okay or do I need a finer flour? Your help is appreciated. The boule of sourdough looks delicious and I can’t wait to make my own.
Hi Emily,
You can use your starter with AP flour. As long as it is active it should work just fine. You can use whole wheat. it will provide more taste, but be prepared that the bread will be a bit dense. If you want a more light bread, I recommend you to use bread flour instead.
Hi Tomas,
I am in the middle of trying to make this bread. The bread has rested for 1h after I mixed all ingredients (except salt) and it’s not rising at all. The only things I can think of are that I used a home mill to grind the rye grains, and the starter is not very mature (6-7 days old). The starter however is behaving in a stable way when I feed it so that shouldn’t be the issue.
Do you think it is a problem that I used home-ground rye flour?
Thanks a mill!
Silvia
Hi Silvia,
One hour is not that much. the dough may need more time, especially if the ambient temperature is low. I don’t have any experience with home-milled flour I’m afraid. But if your dough doesn’t rise I would focus on the starter. I would say, 9 times out of 10 it’s a starter Issue.
As with all rye flour recipes, this was pretty much a disaster)) The mix so wetand sticky that you just can’t work with it in any way.. Wonder if I’ll ever be able to make rye bread (which I love)..
Hi Elena,
I think it’s a flour issue. I have heard about this problem many times. I bake this bread frequently without those problems, so I’m pretty sure. Try to add some more flour next time. Different flour absorbs water differently.
This was my very first attempt at baking with sour dough as well as rye. My result was a tasty bread, nice and moist, but flat as the bread seemed to rise side wise rather than up. I do not own bannetons.
I live in the Rockies in Canada but have lived and baked in Germany and Japan. As I am reading these comments regarding the moisture problem I am wondering if it is related to the humidity level of the air where you live. In many parts of Canada it is very dry–particularly in the winter–which still has not left us. The flour becomes dryer (stronger) just from being in that environment. I have to adjust all my recipes depending on where I am on the globe. Thus, for this bread I added more water than the recipe called for from the start and it was a sticky mess. However, after the dough doubled in size it was very nice to work with and formed nice loaves. Unfortunately, they flattened as they proofed. I also got no oven rise but I am just getting started. I will definitely try again.
I think you may be right about the humidity level. I have only baked where I live here in Sweden, so I don’t have any experience from other environments.
But I also think you are highlighting something even more important.
The need for being flexible when baking bread.
Flour, weather, humidity, temperature. All those things vary a lot depending on where you live in the world. You have to be prepared to adapt to that.
Many thanks for this valuable information, Rosie.
I thought I should follow up with my baking practice. I have made this recipe 4 times now and have had excellent success the last three times. Good shaped loaf, nice airy crumb and excellent crust as well as taste. (Just had some fresh out of the oven–yum yum.)I do have to add about 100ml additional water here in Canada with our extra dry flour.
To be honest, I am surprised at my success. I have had plenty of bad rye bread in this country and professional German bakers living in Canada claim that bread just does not turn out the same in Canada. So I am asking my self what is it that makes this bread so delicious? The ingredients are very basic that one thinks that this can not be the key factor. Does it lie in the technique of the many little steps before that dough is even ready to be fermented, never mind till it is finally in the oven? Do most commercial bakers short cut on these steps? This recipe is called “easy rye”. What makes it easy?
What I am really getting at is that now that I have practiced a little and have some kind of a feel for what this sour dough rye dough should feel like I would like to increase the rye content and hopefully not give up too much of the nice texture of the airy crumb. Is changing the proportions of wheat to rye while keeping the total amount of flour the same an option? Do you have any advice or recipes on increasing the rye content?
Hi Rosi,
First of all, I’m so glad to hear that you had success with this recipe. Congratulations.
The reason I called their recipe “easy rye”, is because I do find it easy to bake. But perhaps it’s because I’m used to baking with rye.
I used to think the same as you, that such basic ingredients can’t make much difference where you live in the world, but I’m not so sure anymore.
There are many having problems with this recipe, but there are also some people claiming the same as I do. That it is an “easy rye recipe”.
So, I suspect that it has to be a flour issue.
But I’m not 100% sure.
You can exchange more wheat for rye, but the bread will become denser. Rye flour doesn’t have the same amount of gluten as wheat so it is inevitable I’m afraid.
You can bake with 100% rye, but you will get a brick. A very delicious brick in my opinion, but still a brick.
Thank you Tomas for your reply. I feel very fortunate to have run into your website for my first attempts to bake with rye and sourdough. The details in your instructions and the links you provided I am sure have had a lot to do with the delicious bread I am enjoying every morning. The manner in which you respond to all comments is also a very kind and generous use of your time–especially during this time of covid when so many of us are exploring baking in new ways.
Back to my questions of raising the rye content of the bread. I am not willing to give up the airy crumb. I have explored German recipes on line a little and noticed that many of them add some yeast to the sourdough mixture. Seems a bit like cheating and I wonder if the yeast will change the taste? The other thing they do is mix only a little of the starter (80g vs the 300g of your recipe)to about half of the flour that the recipe calls for and let it sit for 15-19 hour before forming the dough. It seems like a different technique. Do you have any experience with these type of recipes?
Many thanks for those kind words, Rosi. There has been a lot of questions here lately. But I don’t complain. It’s fun and I learn a lot too, answering all these questions.
Adding a small amount of yeast is not that uncommon in Europe. Some French bakers do it too. But I think many start to move away from that habit.
Adding small amounts of starter allows you to have longer fermentation times which means more taste. Maybe they do that to compensate for the yeast. I don’t know.
I do it myself but mostly with bread based on wheat flour.
One more question if I may: In my readings on bread baking I have come accross the steps after the main fermentation of “pre-shaping” (the loaves)followed by 15 min. of a “bench rest”. I have added these steps since most recipes call for it but found I have had more difficulty telling when proofing is done with the extra tension on the loaf. I had some mishaps now but I would like to think I am gaining experience. Is there a reason why you did not include that step in your recipe?
One more comment in respect to the people complaining that the dough is too sticky to work with. I found a full hour of “autolyse” gave the mixture structure and was much easier to work with.
The main reason for a bench rest is to let the dough relax after preshaping, making it easier to make the final shape. However, since there is quite a lot of rye in this dough, there is not that much tension to relax from.
Remember, gluten is the strings that hold the dough together, creating tension, and there is not that much gluten in rye flour.
Therefore I excluded it because there was not that much tension in the dough.
This is, of course, personal preferences, but I don’t think the dough will change that much from a shaping point of view.
Thank you, that helps to understand the underlying principles.
Hi Tomas,
I have just baked your rye bread for the second time, and I am over the moon. The first time I thought the dough was too dry, so I added more water, which resulted in a flatter loaf, but utterly delicious and moist.
Today I followed the recipe exactly, and I have two beauties!! I am Austrian and have been trying for a long time to bake rye bread that is very much like what I am used to. I have found the perfect recipe!
Thank you!!!
Sonja
Hi Sonja,
You are most welcome. I’m so glad to hear that this recipe worked for you. There seems to be a lot of people having problems with it.
This came out wonderfully. It was nearly my first bread baking adventure. I was lucky to get some 10 year old starter from a local bakery, as well as freshly stone milled flour, milled the day I bought it! I like a pretty sour sourdough, and did a long fermentation in the fridge overnight. I think it’s possible that I slightly overproofed my bread, but for a first shot I think it was pretty darn delicious. Thanks for sharing such a great recipe! I may have eaten half of the loaf this afternoon! 🙂
Congratulations, Alexandra. You are lucky indeed to have access to such great flour. This one of my favorite bread as well. It’s quite addictive.
Hi Tomas
I’d like to try this recipe because my recent rye efforts have been disasters, and the comments here make me think this could be ‘the one’.
However, can I just query the amount of starter used, as 300g is significantly more than the 10-60g or quarter cup amount (all 100% hydration) in the other sourdough recipes I’ve used or reviewed. Are you effectively starting with a smaller amount of starter, say 100g, and feeding it with 100g flour and 100g water until active?
Apologies if this is a dim question but I’m very new to all this!
Very many thanks.
Hi Hilary,
When I wrote this recipe I was thinking of it as a sort of beginner recipe. Therefore, I added more starter. I added all starter at the beginning. And the benefits are that more starter shortens then fermentation time. The downside is you will get less flavor. However, rye flour itself comes with a lot of flavors, so I don’t think it matters that much. You can, of course, use less amount of starter. Just be prepared that fermentation time will increase a bit.
That’s what so exciting about baking bread. You can always tweak recipes so that they suit your personal preferences.
I baked this bread three times over the last week: first, proofing at 24C for four hours, second, by leaving in the fridge overnight, third, adding 25 g of presoaked flax seeds and proofing in the fridge overnight. Except adding the flax seeds to one of the breads, the only difference with the recipe was that each time I was making a boule instead of a batard. All three breads were excellent, which is remarkable because I started to bake bread only a month ago, and this was the first recipe that worked for me. Thank you!
I used AP King Arthur wheat flour, whole grain rye by Arrowhead Mills, both organic, and a 100% hydration rye starter.
It’s great to hear that, Yuri. Especially since so many seem to experience problems with this recipe. I still think it’s a flour issue, though.
Am I supposed to cover them after I’ve shaped them for the final rise?
Yes. Always cover the dough when not working with it. Otherwise, there is a risk the surface of the dough will dry out.
Just as a guess, I was wondering if the problems are due to whether the flour is weighed or is measured by cups, assuming a certain relationship with the weight. Depending on how cups are packed, the weight of the flour they hold can vary substantially.
Yes, I think that can be one problem. Just as you say, measuring with cups can give very inaccurate amounts. That’s why I always urge people to buy a kitchen scale. It doesn’t have to cost much, and together with a thermometer, it’s probably the best investment you can make. Far more important than an expensive dough mixer in my opinion.
This bread is gorgeous! The flavour is nutty & satisfying. My hubby and I cannot stop eating it. It’s my first ever sourdough bread and was a bit nervous about starting off with rye flour. I avoid breads that are 100% plain wheat flour; much prefer rye for it’s nutritional value. This recipe is perfect for beginners. Definitely a good tip to turn down the oven during the last 10-15 minutes. I also found that I needed to keep the tray of water in the oven for most of the 45 minutes (only removed it for the last 5 minutes) otherwise the crust starts to burn. Also, novice mistake: slicing into the bread before it’s cooled prevents the crumb from properly setting.
I’m glad you liked it, Alicia.
And you know what. Even experienced bakers can’t resist slicing the bread too early sometimes.
I have the dough resting an hour. So then I do the stretch and pull. Is that included in the four hour fermentation, or does it need 4 hours after the stretch and pull. A bit confused here.
Thanks for your instructions, so far so good. I have a sour dough starter 6 years old but never made rye bread.
Hi Lis,
After the resting time of one hour, the 4-hour bulk fermentation starts. The stretch and fold are performed during (beginning of) the bulk fermentation.
baking with rye is a bit special, but you will be rewarded with very tasty bread.
This bread is probably the most frustrating thing I have ever baked, but guess what, I keep on making it over and over again! I have been struggling with shaping the dough and I know its because I have been using rye bread flour instead of whole rye. Every time I make this bread I swear to God, this was the last try – never again. But then it rises perfectly, bakes nicely and the most importantly – it tastes fantastic. Its kind of like falling in love with a bad boy. You know its gonna be difficult, but you just cant resist :DD
Yeah, I suppose it can be like that. Falling in love with bad boys and troublesome bread, I mean ?. Baking with rye is a bit special, but just like you say, it gives outstanding taste to the bread.
I’m glad you liked the recipe (after all).
Marta, I am so with you! Never again this loaf! My husband is always laughing when he sees me struggle. But it’s the only bread I bake anyway and I found that I left the bulk fermentation for too long for a while. Now I stick to the 4-5 hours and it’s a lot easier to work with, but easy’s not really the word. I just know what I am up for now and take deep breaths. Also I make two loafs from this recipe in a loaf tin, I wouldn’t even attempt a rising basket and baking it on a sheet.
Hi,
I’m relatively new to sourdough but have been lucky with my white loaves so far, even if I do say so myself 🙂 However I too have just tried to do this using wholegrain organic rye and strong white flour and have not been able to shape the dough. It’s very wet, sticks to everything (I do use wet hands) and I just cannot shape it like the other loaves I have made, they have behaved a bit like the one in the video. What should I do, add more flour now or just try and pick it up and bake it? I’d like to point out that it has risen to about twice the size that is was.
Hi James,
I would try to bake it. Next time, try to add some more flour. You are not alone have problems with this recipe, while others have no problem at all. Therefore I think this problem is related to the flour.
Hi Tomas
Well, I put it in the fridge overnight and it was still very wet but I went ahead and baked it anyway. I wish I could send you a pic of the result, it looked amazing and tastes great. I baked it for 45 mins. 30 mins at 240 with a lid and then 15 at 220 with the lid removed. Flour used is Doves organic for those in the U.K.
Great to hear that, James. You can send me the pictures on email if you want to. I would love to see it.
Sorry. I posted in the wrong place. I can’t find your email. Cheers.
You can send it to tomas@sourdoughandolives.com
HI,
just tried this recipe but did an experiment with the flours as I’ve bought wonderful flours from a traditional miller. Not sure about the types of flours available in the different countries and the local namings but this is how i’ve done it for 1 loaf:
– 250gr rye = 150gr rye T85 + 50gr rye T130 + 50gr rye T170
– 175gr wheat =100gr wheat T80 + 75gr wheat T150
– my starter is from whole wheat (T150)
– as for the rest i’ve followed the recipe
The bread came out great and tastes delicious!
Hi Filipa,
I do envy you. Not everybody has access to such a great supply of flour. Did you experience any of the problems others have described here?
i know! I leave here my flour supplier for those who are based in Portugal as well https://farinhaspaulinohorta.com/produtos/
i am new to sourdough but I understand that the dough is a bit more wet than others, and it was not such a big difference compared to the other wheat sourdough breads I’ve made earlier. Also, after having tried a 100% rye bread (dry yeast), which is more like a rock, this was way easier to work!
Hi. Sure, I can’t find your email though.
Hi Tomas,
I made one loaf last week, and it was perfect! I really appreciated all the information and the additional links. I used Bob’s Red Mill Organic Dark Rye Flour, and 50/50 whole wheat and bread flour (ran out of wheat flour). Dough was a bit sticky in the first stretch and fold, but I used a trick in the first video links of putting a drop on olive oil on my hands before going doing the other stretch and folds and had no issues. It came together easily in the shaping stage into a bâtard! I added caraway seeds on top before baking in a bread cloche, and got a delicious hearty rye loaf with a beautiful crumb. Thank you!
It sounds delicious, Tammy. Caraway is commonly used when baking bread here in Sweden, but I do think it tastes best in bread with lots of rye.
Many people seem to have problems with this recipe, so I’m glad it worked out for you.
I only have one brot form and let the other long loaf rise on a cookie sheet and it made it really flat. What should I do to get the right form before baking it? It looks like the other one rising in my brot form will be just fine but have not scored or baked it yet. Also I want to add some seeds to this recipe.Would ity be best to do this while mixing the dough or after ?Thank you, Ute
Hi Ute,
Next time you can let it rise in a kitchen bowl with floured kitchen towel. That will help it to keep the shape.
In my opinion, it’s best to add seed when mixing.
Hi Thomas
I refer to your website very often and I love it. I’m trying the easy sourdough rye and wondering if I can do an overnight prove in the fridge? In case I run out of time to cook it today
Jane
Hi Jane,
Yes you can prove it overnight in the fridge. The time you can keep it there depends on the temperature of course. But if you are planning o bake tomorrow morning it should not be any problem.
Came out wonderful. Left it to chill overnight. Thank you for recipe and your time to respond to comments. Lots of tips.
Elena.
I’m glad you liked it, Elena. Especially since so many seem to have problems with this recipe.
ANy chance of a levain rye recipe at all Tomas? Thanks.
Not for the moment. I have a few other recipes I’m working with that I want to finish. But I will keep it in mind for the future.
I do appreciate questions like this, as it helps me understand what you want to read about. I encourage more of you readers to do the same.
Many thanks.
Baked this today. Excellent. Lovely medium crumb, consistent texture, full of flavour. I baked it in my Le Creuset. Perfect.
It’s great to hear that, Phil. This recipe has become a bit controversial, so I’m happy every time someone succeeds.
Love this recipe.i have baked it twice & my family keep asking for more.. How many steps if the recipe can I prepare the evening before in order to bake the sourdough the following morning? Thank you
Great to hear, Kate.
You can do all the steps up to proofing/final rise. If you let the dough proof in the refrigerator during the night, you can bake it in the morning.
I’ve made this twice, this second time cutting it in half to make one loaf. It’s worked out perfectly both times and we really enjoy the flavour.
Hi Jane.
It’s great to hear that. Especially since some people have had problems with this recipe.
I made this last week and it was fabulous. My wife who lived in Czechoslovakia for many years declared it some of the best rye bread she has eaten. I am making another loaf right now and following the recipe better than last time. The first time I added the salt and did the first fold at 30 minutes. I then did 3 more folds at 30 minute intervals. I then let it sit for another couple of hours before putting it in refrigerator for the night. I did use high gluten flour. I also dipped my fingers in cold water and kept the dough from sticking to my fingers. I also liberally floured this dough during the preshaping and shaping. White rice flour in the banneton liner kept the dough from sticking. The next morning the cold dough had filled out the banneton and so the dough was cold and stiff and went right into the oven. The rye flour was just whole rye. Thanks for the recipe.
I’m glad to hear that, Lars. Rye is a bit tricky to work with, but it’s not impossible. And I do agree with your wife. This bread tastes great.
Is wheat flour all purpose white flour? I used whole wheat flour instead. The recipe was easy to follow and didn’t have a problem handling the dough (used wet hands) and shaping it. It didn’t have a high spring but it baked really nicely after I proofed it in the fridge. I loved the taste of rye and tartness from the sourdough. The bread was a bit dense but that was expected since I used whole grains. Would you have any thoughts on what I can do to make it more airy beside not using whole wheat flour? I would like to continue using whole grains in my baking and continue to use your recipe.
Wheat flour is actually bread flour. Living in Sweden makes it easy to forget to specify that sometimes. I’m glad you liked the taste. Rye is quite amazing when it comes to taste.
Unfortunately, it’s not that easy to get this kind of bread more airy. There are a number of reasons for that. The number one reason is the high amount of rye. Rye has poor baking qualities compared to wheat flour, and it is not much you can do about that. Whole wheat is also not optimal when it comes to baking if you want an airy crumb. One reason is all those small parts of the bran that is included in the flour. They are quite sharp and acts like little knives that cut through the gluten strings, making the bread denser. You can avoid this to a certain degree by autolysing the flour longer, perhaps 2-3 hours. The bran pieces will soften and become more gentle to the dough. It will not create miracles, but it can improve the end result. The best way to improve the crumb, however, is to make sure that the starter/levain is as strong as possible. The fermentation process is of course also vital, but I’m sure you already know that.
Hi Tomas. Thank you for your response and explanation. It now makes sense to why the end product didn’t turn out like your photo. Do you have any experience using vital wheat gluten? I’ve looked at other recipes that use it or even using commercial yeast. I would like to try to minimize using more ingredients and to stay as traditional as possible. Maybe I’ll try letting the dough rest for an additional 2-3 hours the next time I bake. Another thought, would it be less heavy if say we played with the quantity of flours like maybe 50% rye and 50% whole wheat flour?
Hi again,
I have no experience with vital wheat gluten. I have heard about it, but I have never tried it. Replacing some rye with whole wheat will probably help if you want less dense bread. Be careful, though, about extending the fermentation time. If you suspect that your bread is under-proofed, then, of course, you should try it. But keep in mind that both whole rye and whole wheat have a tendency to ferment faster than bread flour. You may end up with an over-proofed loaf instead if you extend it for too long.
Thomas I just came across your website. It looks fantastic and I plan to try your hearty rye bread first. My question is do you have any suggestions for using up my rye starter discard. I have searched the internet with no success. I would appreciate any ideas.
That is a good question, Jenny. I’m afraid I don’t have a good answer to that. Perhaps in this potato pancake recipe? I have to admit that I have never tried it, though.
Hello…ive made this often..however, how do i triple? As the 3xtab doesnt work..simply 3x every ingredient or do i cut back on some..thought you would also find it interestin to note that my starter is gluten free…thus when wanting to bake GF i can..i have a dedicated small counter with all its own untenils..most are also color coded to make it easy to keep separate…Thanks again for all you do…
Fellow Baker
Hello again..i read through ALL the comments..my thoughts on those having trouble is their flour and measuring methods…i am in the USA..in the midwest..but i purchase my flours, rye, buckwheat and others, from a European Market..labeling is in Russian. Im assuming it is similar to what you all use in Sweden..as apposed to American Flours😃, which are highly processed. Sometimes i purchase the berries from this market and grind them before use. I LOVE this bread..flavor is amazing! I bake large loaves in commercial size pans. It freezes well, sliced or unsliced. Left out, unsliced, with a cloth covering, it is still moist a week later. (this was a difficult test, as usually it is eaten quickly😄) Thank you for sharing of recipe and more importantly your time…
Fellow Baker.
I think you may have a point about the flour. I have baked this bread so many times and never experienced these problems. I’m so glad you like it. it’s one of my favorites too. You never get tired of it. rye is quite amazing. You will never get those high rising airy bread with rye, but the flavor is unbeatable.
Hi Lil. You should be able to triple the amount for all ingredients. I don’t think it matters if you are using a gluten-free starter.
I think the overly wet dough may be because some people use “white flour or bread flour” as apposed to “whole wheat flour or whole meal bread flour”. Which flour do you actually use?
I have just mixed rye and Whole Wheat Bakers Flour and if anything it is a little on the dry side so will probably add a bit more water with the salt.
It appears to me that I should perhaps have used “Plain Bread Flour” ( which is white).
Please confirm for my next attempt.
Hi Ruth,
For this recipe, I use bread flour (white) with a protein content of approx 11.5%.